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Sand Dunes

Law of One series

Episode 2   28 March 2022

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The family dynamic

Virginia Robin

Geraldine Johns-Putra


2 lawyers talking the Law of One: The family dynamicG Johns-Putra & V Warren
00:00 / 58:58


Episode 2: The family dynamic


In this ten-part series, two lawyers come together to explore what it could look like if the law as we know it shifted toward a more unified Law of One in our near future.


In the second episode, our two Lawyers, Virginia Warren and Geraldine Johns-Putra reflect on the family dynamic and how the Law of One would approach disputes concerning close family members.


Show notes






Virginia, co-founder of Lawyers for Love, defies labels but is best recognised as being a lawyer, modern shaman, author and TEDx’er. Lawyers for Love offers a unique, alternate dispute resolution platform that supports the discovery of our authentic selves, by using existing conflict as a catalyst to do so.


Geraldine is a practicing lawyer with her own firm specialising in governance, the impact economy and business & human rights. Her New Earth lawyer podcast features conversations with lawyers who are changing the practice of law to change the world.


Virginia believes that by replacing our existing legal system with one that is more compassionate and validating and most of all, directed by the more highly conscious state of love, we will create a more optimal society.


Geraldine advises clients who are currently engaged in positive transformation of their own businesses, the wider economy, the environment and communities. She sees a world already changing for the better and the law and lawyers adapting in the right direction.

Show notes:

  • [2:10] We talk about how the area of family law has seen positive innovation, such as collaborative divorce law, but that it is ready for further shaking up, that addresses the emotions involved and seeks not to assign blame but to offer compassion and understanding to all parties. 

  • [9:03] The area of domestic violence especially is fraught and ready for progress, especially in empowering victims to move into a state of ownership and responsibility and away from victimhood and enablement.  Virginia shares her personal experience of this. 

  • [19:57] We get into the nitty-gritty of what a love-based family law system would look like - from the perspective of retraining lawyers, removing separation and blame and offering love and compassion based solutions.

  • [27:43] Domestic violence is increasingly politicised when the system should allow individuals to recognise why they have made certain choices, working through the reasons and moving beyond those choices to healing.

  • [34:27] Individual healing also allows for a shift of energies and changes lives. Removing labels that we assign to one another such as victim and perpetrator allows for people to shift into more loving states of being.

  • [45:04] The conversation around female empowerment, moving beyond enablement and victimhood and extending compassion to those who have committed offences against us will also impact the discussion around sexual harassment,

  • [51:32] Hierarchy-based workplaces will elicit fear-based reactions and a person existing in fear may attract consequences to them.  Holding onto fear-based energy perpetuates those environments whereas resonating with love will flatten hierarchies and fear-based systems.


David Hawkins page and books on the Veritas Publishing website:

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Show notes



Virginia  0:00  
Well, hello everyone and welcome. Welcome to the Law of One. My name is Virginia Robin. I'm a lawyer and modern shaman and together with lawyer, Geraldine Grace, we're discussing the Law of One and exploring what it might look like if the law as we knew it shifted towards applying a more unified Law of One to our present situations, things that we're facing in society at the moment. This is a 10-part series in which we will see how the Law of One could look as as a solution to those various societal questions. In our second episode, we're reflecting on what it might look like if we approach conflict within intimate relationships from the perspective of the Law of One. Last week, we discussed a little bit about the Law of One and the Rule of Law. And today, we're just expanding that out to practical application. So in each episode, we're just going to bring in a different part of society, something that affects us all on a day-to-day grounded basis and explain how the Law of One might apply. So yes. Hi, Geraldine, how are you today?


Geraldine  1:10  
Yeah, I'm really well, thanks, Virginia. We had an interesting discussion last time. And you know, when I listened back to our discussion, I know that we had a third energy interjecting every now and again, which is my dog, Rodney. So I apologise beforehand, if he does, if he does express himself. I'm trying different things to to keep him quiet, but he's a dog and he'll bark. So if that happens, I do apologise. 


Virginia  1:39  
We go with the flow, don't we? 


Geraldine  1:40  
But yeah, I enjoyed our discussion.


Virginia  1:42  
We'll just go with the flow, we love Rodney.


Geraldine  1:46  
But I'm looking forward to this discussion, Virginia. I'm not a family lawyer at all, I've never practised in the area. So you know that I will defer to your professional expertise on this as well as your personal views. I do have my views on it, though. And I'll be happy to share those as we go along.


Virginia  2:10  
Yeah, well, look, I have practised in family law, with using all aspects of family law, property, children, conflict, domestic violence. Also, when we talk about family law, we can also talk about estate law and estate litigation, because that, to me is a bit of a fun area, because people are fighting over money. When you get into family law, in the essence of it, the ones we see the most that affect lawyers, perhaps are the ones concerning children, domestic violence and that kind of thing. But it is a very difficult area of practice, for a lot of practitioners in the space. And we recently, I think it was 2019, we have the Family Law Reform Commission, talking about how we can overhaul the entire system, and there have been some inroads. And as we know, this is the Rule of Law, we have had people trying, collaborative practice, which is beautiful. But as many collaborative practitioners choose will say to you, it's only suitable for those that are really not arguing a great deal. They are ready to sort of move through a more dignified process.


So what I'm talking about today really is those areas that are quite aggressive. And, look, I know this from my own practice, years in family law, my own life. This, you know, I'm going to probably put my self on the public spectrum today. It's not easy to talk about your own situation from this place so publicly, but it needs to happen. Because I have seen in the law, the changes are wanted. Practitioners, even in the Law Reform Commission said we need holistic change, no more band aids, and I've seen it with the band aid solution has been go and be nicer, be kinder. It doesn't get to the fundamental principle of the energies involved as the people, as lawyers we're taught don't get emotionally involved.


But as I've said in in my TEDx is just, you are effectively half a human dealing with half a problem. You're coming in left brain, logically focused saying to this human involved, don't bring your emotion. I'm not connecting with your emotion, just let's have the facts. The situation is however, the emotion, the emotions are the facts. This is what we are dealing with, the energy and from my practice now, I practise primarily as a shaman and as a lawyer for the Law of One, how does that apply? The Law of One says instead we are all energy. We start from that premise. Now energy has qualities, like frequency and flow. And when we're dealing with the idea that we see a human and their energetic beingness, we can say that we can see their frequencies, the prominent frequencies they are operating at, by the conflicts they're in. Now, this, the scope of this discussion today is not really to go into how that all works so much. So we're just asking you to be open-minded. And these are my views and my experiences that I'm bringing to the table. And I know Geraldine, you see this The Law of One as an alternative way of seeing things, and that the essence of us is that we are energy and we need to shift to looking at it like that. I think you see it the same way as I do in that respect.


Geraldine  5:54  
I agree. And I think the beauty of the Law of One principle, in interpersonal relationships, more than any other area of law, for example, corporate law, or criminal law where the State might be involved, in interpersonal relationships, because we are so enmeshed often with the people that we may come into conflict with, it's less of a step to see. to understand and extend compassion if the person, if a person is able to make that switch and see it again. So for example, I mean, take a marriage, right? People start off, unifying. They get married, and they talk about till death do us part, which is that they come together as one, I mean, all of those expressions are used. So at least once upon a time, they had this idea that we are one, we are one unit. Or in estate dispute, if you have siblings, it's one family that come from the same place at least biologically or, you know, in a familial sense. So it's not so much of an extension for people to start just to think of themselves as one. And that's also why the breaks are so painful. So I see the Law of One here as, I see the whole area here as a perfect place to to begin to practically bring in Law of One concepts. And that's already happening. So as I said, I'm not a family lawyer, not a family law specialist. But I have spoken to family lawyers, who are practising new ways, the collaborative law movement comes to mind and I've spoken to collaborative law practitioners who avoid the courtroom when they're dealing with family disputes, who tried to be more holistic, like you say, don't avoid the emotions, in fact, involve psychologists, don't avoid the difficult discussions around money, involve financial experts, and really bring it a perspective that has been different from the traditional law of you know let's take this to court and let's get you as much money as you can if you're divorcing. So I see that ripeness, but you know, there's something you said about really moving past, moving into important Oneness concepts, and you know you touched on domestic violence, I think that there's more that can be done in this area to innovate. And that's the nub of, you know, people taking ownership of who, of what part they've played in these interpersonal conflicts. That's where I think we're ready for the big, big changes in family law. And that's where I think, you know, we're going to really stretch boundaries so that people are practising Oneness in the law - family law.


Virginia  9:03  
Yeah, yeah. You know, you just spoke about taking ownership or responsibility. And it really is about our ability to respond to, our response-ability to life. Your life is your response to it. And for me, I have dealt with, you know, as a child, I was in a family that exhibited domestic violence. And I went through that with my marriage, my own marriage of 30 years. And it was apparent to me that people tend to like to blame everybody else for their situation. We say, well, you know, I didn't, you know, they made me do that, they made me feel bad, they made this happen. And I'll tell you a little funny story about this. I went into the Family Court to as I was representing myself in my own matter, and I was in the safe room. And I thought it was really quite funny being in the safe room in the Family Court where we're all, all us women are locked in a room and our estrangeds are on the outside roaming free in the Court. And I thought that was quite, I was really amused by that, and I thought it's poetry really, because we create our own realities. And there I was in my own prison that I've created effectively. I've imprisoned myself myself and I thought this is quite amusing. So how did I get there? That's the situation. And I just say to the other women. We were just talking about everything. We were just sort of getting to know each other because you've got a common denominator when you're in a sorry situation, if you like. And we sat there, you know, what are you in for basically, that was really quite amusing. And I said, you know what, one woman said to be, she'd heard when she came into the court in the morning, she said, oh, I wonder who the poor woman was that her spouse was shouting at in the court foyer earlier. And I said, well, that was a person I was once very close to, and I'm no longer a poor woman. And, you know, all knowing looks going around, oh you poor love, you know, everything else. And I said, no, no, no. The situation is, I'm an enabler. You know, every one of us here was an enabler. We got ourselves into this situation, we thought, by meeting these people, and we would have felt some sort of energy in the beginning that says, oh, warning sign, don't go any further. But there's something about the energy. And this is why I talk about energy to understand why you two got together in the beginning. This is really important. I was attracted into this relationship, you know, it was a 30 year marriage, to learn about myself. It had nothing to do with him whatsoever. To blame anybody is, because I see what's happening at the moment, in domestic violence, there's a lot of blaming men, for everything that's happening. Yes, they're the unpreferred consequence, but we continue as women and some men, some men are abused, if you like, it's not just women, but we continue in these relationships with the idea that we can fix or we're good people, or we will be better. All these reasons. It's personal, it's very personal journey for people and I'm not discounting things and saying, oh, it's light, it isn't. I have had death threats, in many situations, you know, in childhood and adulthood. I understand it. It's not I'm not taking it lightly. But I can certainly say that I contributed to all that, it was my energy. And this is what with the Law of One, if you can see it that way, what we do is we look at both sides now. And we say okay, you two were attracted. Why? So there's something within me that attracted that energy. Now, I could have run for the hills when I recognised it. Because we've all been in situations where we say to someone, gee, your energy didn't, you know, resonate with me. So you move on, we can feel people in our space. This is really important. So that's probably all I want to talk about that.


Geraldine  13:28  
I think it's important to actually bring that practical example and very personal example to life, right? Because imagine if you began to integrate the realisations that you had into the legal sphere. So it looks a little bit like those restorative justice modalities, that we, I think we might have talked about it a bit last time. You know, so that you're giving a voice to the so-called victim, and the so-called victim is participating in the redress of it, that's restorative justice. And it empowers the victim. So I think, if you take, if you apply to family law, I mean, obviously, if you have a domestic violence situation, if you're actually you know, if you're actually in a criminal case, where there's a domestic violence situation, it's different from a family law case. But let's say it's a family law case. So there is no actual victim and no actual perpetrator. It's just two parties trying to say get divorced. But if in working through that, the person who has been victimised is able to take ownership of the process or ownership of what's happened and given a voice or given a proactive role, with the help of facilitators and the parties, the two parties are actually moving towards healing at the same time as they are sorting out what to do with their assets. So I think that is one way in which you could bring that Oneness angle into, say a divorce case. You know don't like you were saying earlier, don't divorce the emotional part from the legal part. It's all tied up together. How a person feels about the assets that they brought to the marriage or that they're leaving, that they've grown in the marriage and who gets what, the situation around children. It's all tied up with the emotional. So I could imagine that if you had a legal process that, you know, didn't kind of make it adversarial and allowed two parties to come together more than mediation, you know psychologists in the room and so on and allow people to be vulnerable, then you get a much better, more meaningful outcome in a legal setting.


Virginia  16:16  
Yeah, that's it, you know, and I see it also, that we are focused on adversarial, me versus you, you go into a family law situation position-based, your lawyer is trained to find the best parts of your case, and make the case of why you should get more property, why you should get the children and that's the way you walk in the door. Rather than I see it is the Law of One, us being one means that the moment I see conflict is what's within me, I need to look at not blaming somebody else for the situation, but I resonated with this. What needs to be adjusted or bought into higher consciousness for me not to resonate with that anymore? So the world is your mirror, everything reflects back at you. And this is why I say yes, at present, we need someone to deal with, you know, you're moving apart, so you've got property together, you need that process, so that that these things can happen. But from the emotionally charged situation, if the two of you do not learn from this conflict, you will go on and repeat the pattern, you're just, you're going to attract the pattern, you are an energy stream. So you keep that going forward. Now the other party, if you know myself, if I've said okay, what I saw in that relationship is I was rejecting anger. Mostly that is women, okay, we reject anger, we were told, don't be angry, be a nice girl. These are the rules we carry. And that's another big story. But when I reject anger, of course, I see an angry person and say, oh, I don't like you. You're horrible, you know. And so I put up a resistance, of course, resistance in energy is creating a negative, it's stopping your flow, energy must flow. So when I learned and accepted anger, for example, and this is just a very simple thing, when the lawyer or anyone working in this space, say, oh, we see what's happening here, psychologist, whatever it is, it's actually physics, it's all physics. This energy thing is all physics. So when you're saying, I've accepted anger, it means I've softened, oh, there we go, we're back. We're softened in the flow. And now my flow is going again, and I'm not resonating with that idea of anger is bad, so I won't attract people into my space, that trigger me or that anger. And I move on. And so then I'm not stuck in that field. If I don't, I will find another partner to show that for me again. Because that's what we do. We just keep attracting experiences for ourselves, too. We learn something. In my view, we are all here for the experience of it. Because being the one whole energy, the beautiful one whole energy that we are, the Law of One energy, you cannot experience anything unless you have another perspective of it. So like waves on the ocean, we are individuals like Geraldine I am you and you are me, but you are an individual expression of that one energy, you've come here to express yourself in this form. I've come to express myself in this form. So perhaps in this lifetime, I wanted to explore anger. What's that all about? How can I recognise it in myself? Can I accept it? It's a pretty tough one, you know, and most of society is in that space. So the idea of blaming someone else for my situation, it seems to me to be ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's my ability to explore who I am.


Geraldine  19:57  
So let's take a divorce example. And you know, so let's move to the extreme because I'm really intrigued and want to tap your brains on this. If you take an extreme case of domestic violence in a divorce so, and let's take a classic male perpetrator, female victim, so to speak, and so tied up with the divorce are, you know, restraining orders against the wife, restraining orders against the children? How could we set up a system that's more aligned to oneness where the male perpetrator, the husband is, the fact that he's is one with you, me, the judge, the lawyers, his wife and children, that he's one of us that we've, that there's been, at some point, some higher level, multi-dimensional level of consenting that's occurred as hard as it might be for people to accept it, a consenting that's occurred on the part of the wife and the children, even though at an Earth level, they're not at the age where they can consent, but there's a multi dimensional consent. How could we, how could we honour all of that in a court, in a legal setting? What would that look like, do you think?


Virginia  21:37  
Well, as I see it, we are all the one is love, the energy resonance of love, everybody is trying to find their way home to love. We are born onto this planet as pure allow peace, satisfaction, and then we're just integrated as we as we grow. Now we're looking for that again. So love might look like power over somebody or control so to answer your question, firstly, we need to remind everybody You are Love You are Love.


Most people and the words as you were saying so-called, I don't like using the words perpetrator or victim, you are holding people in that energy pattern. Geraldine and I've spoken about this before, just so everybody can understand that. We need to use different words. Everyone's just having an experience. So you're experiencing this side of the coin, and I'm experiencing the other side of the coin. So that so-called perpetrator may be somebody who's, they're just looking for love. Everybody is motivated to do the things they do because they feel better in the doing of it. When you cut everything right down to the nitty-gritty. So a system that would remind people of who they are, and how can we help you get yourself back to love. We love you. And this is holding the space for people. Because the moment you're say in a courtroom saying, I blame you you are bad, you will have a restraining order against you, you are now still separated from the rest of us all, which is not possible. It's simply not possible. From an energetic point of view, even when, you know people that have been maybe sent to jail and the person on the outside, thinking they're coming out, they're going to get me. So you haven't, you have not done anything about the energy of the equation. The person on the outside of the prison is in terror of the person on the inside. Now, not every one's willing to reform or understand that they're loved. But we have not yet had a system which holds the space for these people from both sides of the fence. Everyone seems to rally around the females. And in the safe room, I said this to these women. I said we're all enables. And none of them could deny it. They knew from the moment that they went into the relationship that there was danger signs for themselves. But there's an attraction and it's a fear-based attraction. So what we need to do is figure out why we have these fears within us that are just clouding the love that we are and just work through our own fears. So the system instead would look at you as a loving being and say how did we all create this because we are one? How do we help you move back to love which really is all of us. Love is so powerful. So all of us coming into the system loving people. And I know this sounds we do this to so many of you but the fundamental... Love is a state of beingness, it's not what I do to you hug you, kiss you whatever. It is my state of peace. If I am feeling an ultimate state of peace I am in a state of love. You cannot do anything to me, hurt me, there's nothing you can do. Because I will not resonate with those, let's say call them lower frequencies. I don't resonate that. And so the legal system first needs to help its lawyers resonate in our highest, higher frequency state. It was Dr. David Hawkins that said, the higher your level of consciousness, the more healing the outcome for your client. Now he was a psychiatrist. But it applies across the board, no matter whether you're a mechanic, working on someone's car, if you have a high level of consciousness, that is your energy flowing through to the thing that you are doing, and the beings, the car, everything, it's all energy, the property, everything. 


Geraldine  25:46  


Virginia  25:47  
So the lawyers would be trained in highly conscious ways of being, when they're holding that beautiful space of higher consciousness, that translates, the other people resonate with it, somewhere within everybody, there is a resonance of love. And Freud said it too, listening is healing. Everyone wants to be metaphorically held and heard. And often in this system, you feel like and I know this from actually being the client myself, you don't feel heard. They don't have time. They've got to get you, process you through the system, get it sorted, get the next case through, there's nothing like this. What the system is good for, however, is if you are open, and if you are more highly conscious, you can say, gee, how am I reacting to this system? Do I have any fears? Is it triggering me? That's it, it's just part of my experience, part of my game, everything that flows to you is for your experience, variants of it. And yes, some situations can be deadly. But we know that pre-birth most of us came to have, we knew the experiences we were coming in for and most of you that are listening to this will understand that at some level of your knowingness, you will know that you came to have the experience. And death is not the end, it is not the end. This is just physics, your energy is transformed. Nothing can be created or destroyed energetically. That is my belief system. It's worked for me and all these things that through my whole life, I am at as peaceful a human can be now you can yell you can call me anything, say I am absolute idiot for the way I believe things, that's fine. But my belief system is getting me to the place that I am now, it feels pretty good. I don't seem to worry about what people are doing. And I'm feeling your, your experience, I'm having mine. And if I'm just sitting here in love, I'm actually helping you too.


Geraldine  27:43  
And I think what's so interesting about what you've shared and. very wise words, Virginia, is that if you look at the example I gave, then you would have a husband in this case, who would be taking responsibility for what he may have done, but allowed to do so in an environment of understanding, compassion and forgiveness even. And a wife, who would be taking responsibility for what she has experienced as well. And then able, actually getting over this victimhood by being able to extend that love, compassion and forgiveness. Getting to forgiveness is an incredibly difficult thing for many people. It took me many years to get to forgiveness, with certain people in my past. But when I did, the empowerment I felt was amazing, because I had gone from all right, accepting that I played a part in what had happened, accepting that I had been an enabler, and still the gap was there to forgiveness. But it was quite quick, in a sense, to cross that gap once I took responsibility for my part, because it was then a matter of seeing, all right, if I'd agreed to it, you'd agreed to it, it was just as you said, for the experience, it's logical than to simply say, okay, well, you know, I forgive who you are being in this lifetime. You did what you either agreed to do or what you'd been conditioned to do, and it's totally fine. And from then on, I could, as you've talked about, also, today, just go on and have different experiences in my life and not repeat patterns. So I could see that happening. I think it's got to happen outside of the court system. Because going back to our discussion about alternative platforms and so on, I think this is an example where I agree with you. The court system is just not built for this kind of discussion at all at an interpersonal level. So you keep it out of the court system, I hear you on the training that would be given, the higher consciousness training that would be given to the lawyers involved and what would be available to everybody. And then I think that we would get to a very interesting point in terms of outcomes. We would have, you know, not just like I said earlier, legal outcomes, okay, this is what you get, this is what I get, this is how often, the access you get to children and so on, but you also then get both parties, and then the children and community healing and rehabilitating. And I think that what I really like about this whole picture is it's doable. It is doable, right now with our knowledge and with where we are on collaborative divorce and collaborative family law, I actually think we could move there. I think that what needs to happen is when it comes to domestic violence is to allow people to work out their own problems, and not politicise the domestic violence angle of it. And this is where it's between the people, yes, the community's involved, but it's between the people to work it out. And it's not, it's not a matter of other people, you know, having putting in their two cents and saying, no, you know, how could she accept that she's played a part, no we've got to punish him, because, you know, he's a man and women have been through too much. I think if we get rid of the whole political angle in this family law, this very particular family law kind of dispute, which happens very often, we can move further. To that political end, I actually think that, you know, what started as an empowerment of the woman is actually being used against the woman because it's keeping the woman, keeping that feminine energy...


Virginia  32:05  


Geraldine  32:06  
In a place, yes, of victimhood.


Virginia  32:08  
Yeah, yeah, we're keeping ourselves in prison girls. You know, I saw it, it was hilarious. I thought, because the world is always reflecting back to you. That's how this hologram works. You, everything happens around you is a reflection of your belief systems. And this is why I also say in this space that we don't even need, say you have one very willing party to sort of look at themselves and say, okay, how, what's my role in this, you don't actually need the other person to be a participant. If one person is not ready to move yet and not ready to see themselves in the picture, your energy shift alone is enough. That's all. 


Geraldine  32:48  
Yep, that's very powerful.


Virginia  32:49  
You can say I've played this part of the game. I've played this part of the game, I'm ready to move on now, and you do. I did. And other parties, they might stay playing their game for a bit longer, they might attract others into keep playing the game. You have no idea what someone else's game is. You only are learning about yourself, always. And that's the funny thing about our legal system. You've got representatives for both sides, and someone's got to speak up for you and be your parents and tell you how it's done. No, this is totally different. It's absolutely self-reflection. And look, I will even say that, you know, things like restorative justice, beautiful, but from my experiences, I will say, the other party can never come and see it from your point of view. Never. Your perspective is so unique. This is your game alone. And I think this is if we start really focusing on helping people focus on bringing themselves back to a higher state of consciousness. Dr. Hawkins, I think his work was so instructive. You know, whilst it's in the psychiatric field, he was talking about energy and frequency. And his work was very popular, I think in the 70s or so. And it's really, I've seen a lot of really good stuff in there. I think if people can sort of go back to the idea of, he struck upon the ideas of how these frequencies work. 


Geraldine  32:49  


Virginia  32:55  
And what you need to learn about yourself, it's just knowing yourself. It's this is, you're here to discover you, who you are.


Geraldine  34:27  
Yeah, because again, speaking from experience, right, once you've unpeeled that layer, it's actually a life lesson, right? And so it actually allows you speaking from a Oneness, a law of Oneness idea, it allows a shift because you've kind of, you've almost kind of levelled up, you know, so you've passed that test and you've gone up the next level and then all of these other things that had been held, you actually you've been holding yourself back from because you needed to learn this life lesson first, you actually then experience. It's an amazing shift of energies. And you're enabling that along.


Virginia  35:13  
That's the beautiful thing. 


Geraldine  35:15  


Virginia  35:16  
If I do something for me, I do it for you. And if I'm blaming you, effectively, I'm blaming me. So...


Geraldine  35:23  


Virginia  35:23  
Why am I putting us all down, when I can raise us all up?


Geraldine  35:28  
And there's another thing here about, that you're absolutely right, that if you assign a role to somebody, and you were talking about perpetrator, victim roles, names and labels, if you assign that label to somebody, and they accept it, that actually, you know, keeps that perpetuated. So once you shift, as you say, you shift within yourself, and then you shift your perspective on everything, actually looking at a person in a different light allows them to be that. It's a, it's part of the Oneness, you know, you're extending that to another person, to another being, and because we're all actually connected, they can sense it, and they can experience it. So the opportunities are actually endless. And this is why, you know, I said to you, I think when we're talking about having another conversation, family law is ripe for this sort of change and you said, well, any area of law is, and I agree with you, I say family law only because we have seen moves already,  and also because interpersonal can have very significant and immediate impacts. But you know, the lessons are there for every other area of law, corporate law, you know, public law areas, you can stop seeing the State as this big, all-powerful behemoth that can tell you what to do, and so on and so forth.


Virginia  37:00  
That's it. Effectively, yes, you are taking your power back, when you're not, when you don't react to somebody anymore, they no longer hold your power, you've taken the power back, because just like you can say anything to me, I'm just like, oh, yeah, that's good. What do you reckon? And there is no power there. There's no energetic charge, there's no, there's nothing for me to then want to respond to you in a negative way. I'm not engaged. So it's beautiful. Like you take your power back and you're sovereign. And this is I see what our legal system unfortunately perpetuates is the idea that we are separated. Even though as I said to you the other day, the High Court has acknowledged for the Indigenous that we are part of one organic, indissoluble whole and I really don't see how Indigenous peoples are different from us, you know, why is it still us and them, we're still separating everybody. We are one, we are all one. And when we are able to see that, the way we play our game changes, because I see this life as a game, every moment, it's all just now, every moment is a challenge. And everything you face, even if you find yourself in the legal system in its present form, the idea is, well, what's in it for me? How can I grow from this? Why have I found myself in this place? There must be something in it for me, what is for the highest good of all here? Because we are one, the decisions need to be made instead of oh, if I get the house. I mean, let's talk about property, for example, I want the house and I want the money and I want all this and you deserve nothing. Well, how is that for the highest good of all? 


Geraldine  37:02  
Yep, yep.


Virginia  37:10  
You know, if I get all the cookies, maybe I'll get sick. Don't worry, the Universe gives you what you need. Which I think is really quite amusing. No, just like, what is for the highest good of all here? Is it better that I have this and then I can go on and do other things that I want to do and expand myself. It's an abundant Universe, people don't think that this is one tiny little bit of pie and you just want a sliver, the whole Universe is out there. It's just we get so focused on the very, very mundane, small things and worry about what someone said about us. Whoa, let it go, move on.


Geraldine  39:19  
Yeah, well, that moving on is also an integral part of what we're talking about. So that once you've accepted, all right, you accepted your part in it, accept that the other person's part in it, accepted the consent that has been given, accepted the enablement and there's a healing that's occurred, I think what's really wonderful about it is the moving on, right? So you move on in love and therefore you're not entangled still with that person energetically, in a way that doesn't serve your interests. You know, you can, as I said, forgiveness, a big part of it so once I actually forgave people in my past I wasn't, they weren't taking up space in my head rent free, as they say, you know, that was gone. And I was more able to live in the now and so on. That's really important that we're not creating this web of dark connections between us anymore. We're clearing all of that out. And that's part of the important, that's why even though this is all interpersonal, yes, it does impact all of us as a whole. We've got to clear all of these darkness. 


Virginia  40:39  
The people in your life or the actors in your play, you know, when you look at that, and you say, oh, how am I responding to them? That's it. But forgiveness is beautiful. I found that people are, I'm working on another idea, because I think people find forgiveness tricky. You know, how am I going to forgive you, I say, have compassion, if we look at, see everyone as just in their own story, because we're all got the stories, as you just said, the people in your head, the stories are going in your head, and it's real. That's your creation, your thoughts are your reality. And you continue to create them, your choice to change them, but we can see that people are still creating their own realities and just say, well, oh, gee, I see what you're doing there like interesting story. Because some of them are really interesting. Why would you do that, I wonder. That's so interesting. And I have compassion for you. If I say, oh, you know, you could just make another choice, but I see that you don't have the ability yet to make another choice, so I'll just have compassion for you. It really discharges the negative energy between the parties. And that's what I was, you know, part of my teaching as well is to teach lawyers to just model the idea for their clients to have compassion for the other. Of course, we have lawyers in the legal system that want to fight each other too.


Geraldine  41:53  
Well yeah.


Virginia  41:53  
It starts in the present system. It starts with putting your own oxygen mask on first, if you're going to help your client in this space, but you know, as I see it this system isn't really suited for what I'm talking about. It's another platform.


Geraldine  42:05  
Yeah. And you need a different kind of training. So you were talking about higher consciousness training for lawyers. So there's a lot of undoing of legal training that needs to occur. You are not helping the client in the sense by insisting you know that they need to be pursuing every last asset and need to be draining that other person dry. And then you're winning and they're winning. You say this a lot as well, Virginia, you know, that that lawyers are so position-based. And there's so net zero in terms of, zero sum game in their outlook, that's got to stop because zero sum game, the other side loses you lose. You win, if they win, you win. I mean, you've got to look at it that way. 


Virginia  42:54  
We are one.


Geraldine  42:55  
That's right. Yeah, so there's no zero sum game. It's got to be win, win win, win, win.


Virginia  43:02  
Yeah, yeah. It's funny when you look at it from this point of view, it's like trying to slice up the ocean. You can't do it.


Geraldine  43:09  


Virginia  43:09  
You can't do it.


Geraldine  43:12  
Exactly. It's the whole idea of yeah, we all waves, different waves, but we go back into the one so you know, like, it's a good, yeah, you can't divide the ocean.


Virginia  43:24  
We're expressing ourselves individually. Some of us are very messy. Some of us are strong and powerful. Some of us are gentle. It's okay. We are just here for the experience of it. Just let people have their experience. But look at your own triggers. Just say, well, wow, why am I responding like that? It's all about me, me, me, me. I know, no, it's not conceit. That's a negative energy about yourself. A positive energy about yourself is like, wow, why am I doing that, there must be something in it for my growth here. I can, you know, learn from this, this is the thing. And when you do, you know, you find yourself, as you lose your fears, your negative energies, you move back to peace, it's natural, your natural state is peace. If you're not feeling it, what fear am I holding on to, is the only question. And that's what our systems could help. We could politically help reframe everybody's position. What fear am I holding on to and I'll often say this about the pandemic, people were encouraged to be fearful. Because fear attracts fear. So it just does. You're resonating at that level, like a tuning fork, you resonate at that frequency, that's what you're attracting to yourself. You animate the frequency, you animate all the things that vibrate at that frequency. It's just physics.


Geraldine  44:43  
Yeah, and there's another frequency you know that we've been touching on here and that is that eye for an eye frequency, you know, the vindictiveness or getting revenge or which is, some people think it's justice, but to me, that's not actually the true meaning of justice. 


Virginia  45:03  
You're hurting yourself. 


Geraldine  45:04  
Yeah, you're hurting yourself, So I think there are lessons in what we've been talking about, for just the broader discussion around male-female dynamics, around female victimhood. You know, we could also extend it into the whole conversation that's let's being ad right now around harassment of women, around victimising of women. 


Virginia  45:35  
Same thing. 


Geraldine  45:37  
Same thing, yep. I've been in the corporate world, and I'm not minimising what has happened by no means and I'm not, you know, there's no victim blaming here. But, and I've experienced harassment, but every time I took an empowerment approach, rather than a victimhood approach, I grew. And that's the sort of conversation that I would like to see. And when I talk about empowerment, I don't mean necessarily, you know, going on marches, or insisting that people should be apologising for who they are. 


Virginia  46:20  
It's fear again, it's fear.


Geraldine  46:21  
What I'm talking about, here, yeah, what I'm talking about is the sense of okay, well, you know, I may have played a part in this, I'm going to examine this from a position of love. I'm going to examine why at a higher level, I drew this to me. And I'm not going to see it as a horrible thing that happened, necessarily, I'm going to see why I wanted that lesson. And when you do that, you know, it's got to be personal, each person has to reach that point themselves. That's the other thing. You can't actually, I'm not going to tell another person, you drew that experience to you, I can't do that. And I wouldn't do that. And that's very insensitive of me to do that. It's got to be personal work, that's the other thing, it's got to be personally accepted. And that's what the whole system that we're they're talking about would be set up to do.

Virginia  47:13  
Yeah, I think it's modelling, modelling the ideas for others if say, oh, if you're interested to see how I live my life quite peacefully, this is what I do. 


Geraldine  47:22  


Virginia  47:22  
You can continue to be in a fight, because it will continue. I can guarantee, and I've seen presently, the situation now, with women speaking out about sexual harassment, yes, it takes courage. That was perhaps the thing you needed to have at the beginning of the relationship with anybody concerned, the courage to say no, I don't want this, I'm turning away now. 


Geraldine  47:48  
Yes, yes.


Virginia  47:48  
Speaking up or doing whatever it was before the energy became too enmeshed. This is what happens, the energy becomes that enmeshed you think oh, it'll be all right in a minute. It'll be all right. When I get to the next level, it'll be all right. When I get another job, it'll be all right. It's no, it's never all right, when you're living in a place, from a place of fear, doing things that you're not really that comfortable with. And that's not loving for yourself. But having the courage is a good step. So that's the next step, courage. This is beautiful. I've seen all these women having this courage, speaking up, fantastic, but they're still coming from a place of fear, there's blame, there's finger-pointing. No, it's what within me attracted this situation? I know you're saying, Geraldine, I don't say you attracted that in. I will, because you have that energy within you, that created this situation for you. It's for you, you can have it or not have it. Your choices, always. You say we limit our choices when we say, because of this, because of this terrible situation, I have to stay in victimhood. And I can only do this and I can't work in a man's world. Don't work in the man's world. Don't. You've got a choice. I mean, to me, it's just, because I see a lot of that too, is people saying I can't go into that now. It's not fair. I want to go and work in that office. Well, would you jump in the water full of sharks? Would you? Oh, sharks don't bite me. No, go and do something else. Oh, but I trained to be a lawyer. Well, set up your own practice, set up a practice that's kind and heart, you know, maybe it's not the job for you. Why are you doing it? Did someone tell you you had to be a lawyer? Did you get prestige from that? What is it about you insisting? What you're doing is resisting a flow. Remember, it's all energy. So if you've got resistance, it will feel negative for you. Where are you putting your flow?


Geraldine  49:42  
And that's why I say it has to be a personal choice. And when people have that personal acceptance, it's not society's business in a sense then and it's not anybody else's business. So someone decides that they're going to walk away from the legal profession because they don't like that energy, that's totally all right. You know, that's totally fine. They're not being a coward. They're doing what, they're honouring themselves. And it's the same with someone who, you know, might, say, if they make a choice to forgive someone who's abused them, right? They're not, you can't then say, oh, you should be more angry or you should seek justice or you should, you know, take them through the system. They've made that particular choice. And if they're doing so out of love, for all, as well as love for themselves, then it's probably for the highest good of all, right?


Virginia  50:42  
It is. it is for my good and I would say thank you. Because recently, too, I just saw the Human Rights Commissioner did, I can't remember the name of the paper, but it was in response to bullying and Commonwealth workplaces, and what, this is the fundamental issue here, that the Human Rights Commissioner said that it is okay for the leaders in Parliament to pursue power. That's a fear-based thing, saying I don't have power, I've got to go find it. Because we all have personal power. So when you have, and not abuse it, so you know, they're trying to make a distinction, there is no distinction. It's a fear-based energy system, I call them egregores, they're thought forms, they have this signature energy of fear when you walk into them, like many major law firms around the place, because they're working... 


Geraldine  51:30  
Hierarchy, yes. 


Virginia  51:32  
Working in fears, that's what they work with, they work with that signature energy. So if you walk in there, expect to be part of it. If there's any fear within you whatsoever, it will be highlighted, you will, those parts of you will be animated. If you are perfectly at peace, you can go in and do whatever you like and not be affected by anybody. And that is, it's so easy to say, so difficult to do, because that's the game we play. That's part of our game. And I've found that so remarkable that the Human Rights Commissioner would say it's okay for our parliamentarians to pursue power. And frankly, I think that is the underpinning of our society is based in fear and the legal system is based in fear, so we resonate greatly with fears. That's why we need to pull ourselves out of that idea and create another idea. One based in love, one based in a system that is for the highest good of all. When I'm thinking about any decision I make, is it going to affect you? Me first, yes, me first, because this is my experience. But then I feel around like now how does it affect everybody else? Because what might look like a negative, you know, you tell your child, no, you're not having the cookies, and he might crack it, say no, I want the cookies and throw a tantrum. No, it's for your highest good, you know, not having the cookie, you know? And that is the loving response there.


Geraldine  52:54  
Yeah. Yeah, I think what that kind of approach of saying that that's what politicians are, therefore, they're there to pursue power, and they can do so in a way that's fair and reasonable. I think trying to fit this very powerful, I'll call it feminine energy, even though it's not exclusive to women, but powerful energy of love and compassion, when it meets that structure of hierarchy and power, it is not there to fit into that structure of hierarchy and power. It is there to flatten it and to extend love to everybody. So I agree with you. I mean, what we're talking about actually, is that energy coming in and completely destroying this idea that power is okay, power and control is okay. So I think that you know, any choice that's made by a person who may have experienced harassment or assault or abuse or domestic violence, if their reaction is one that's based in love, it will contribute to that breaking down of the control structure. Because love is the strongest energy, love is stronger than absolutely anything, nothing can withstand it. And so, to me, it's the stronger reaction, it's the stronger response.


Virginia  54:27  
More powerful. That's where the true power is, people, when we can see that love has the highest power. You are, yeah, go back to David Hawkins' Power versus Force, his book. Anything, if you create a resistance and you're pushing you create, again, Newton's third law of physics says an equal and opposite reaction will happen. So you create this, this is what happens, resistance. 


Geraldine  54:54  


Virginia  54:55  
That's force. Whereas true power is flow. It's love , it's just soft and people recognise it and they think, oh, I know that, I want to be part of that, too. So it really is, again be the change. It's about being the change.


Geraldine  55:12  
Yeah. And so I'm not criticising people who go on marches, because different marches have a different kind of energy. So you can march against something to fight something, or you can march with love, and they'll be a different energy. But of the two, one is, as you say is an exercise of like trying to force something, another is just this absolute flow of completely natural power.


Virginia  55:40  
Bringing awareness. 


Geraldine  55:42  


Virginia  55:42  
Just bringing awareness to look, we don't prefer what's going on over there. But we'd like to create this. So let's all just stand together and say we'd like to create love, we'd like to create peace, we'd like to create more of a community. 


Geraldine  55:53  


Virginia  55:54  
And we all stand together and do that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Beautiful, creating another egregore, a beautiful energy of togetherness, and just say, well, yeah, we're not all holding hands and singing Kumbaya. That's not it. This is I think, people get that image. Because back, you know, in the hippie movement, for example, that was, that's still fear-based it was anti establishment. It's not being anti-anything actually. 


Geraldine  56:19  
Correct. It's just it's not an anti-anything protest. It's a pro-love march.


Virginia  56:26  
Just holding that energy. Because when you hold that you shift it you raise it for everybody. Everybody feels that beautiful energy. So that's the alternative platform. And yeah, if we say it often enough and people are feeling it, they're feeling it now. I even say with with the wars and I mean war, your litigation, your domestic violence, it's all war on a just a different level. That's all it is. It's all the same energy.


Geraldine  57:02  
Hmm. Well, we've almost got to the very end of this. We're almost... 


Virginia  57:09  
We're almost at the end.


Geraldine  57:11  
I was just hoping you would unfreeze and you have, perfect.


Virginia  57:14  
If everyone shifts their own energy you're doing it for everybody else. So you're doing an amazing job. We love you. And I think that's all I have to say about that today. And actually, in our next episode, what are we talking about next one Geraldine, was it? Where are we up to? It was a crime. I think we touched a little bit on it today, but I've got more to say about crime.


Geraldine  57:38  
Ooh, actually, you've caught me on the hop on that one.


Virginia  57:45  
I think it is crime.


Geraldine  57:47  
It's money. We're going to do money before crime.


Virginia  57:53  
We're going to do money. We're going to do money before crime. All right, so we're going to talk about the energy of money next month. So it should be a fun one as well. In the legal system, and how the Law of One can help us with money. Which is a beautiful thing. We love everything. Thank you all so much for coming along today and watching this episode. It was a you know, a pretty intense one today. 


Geraldine  58:14  


Virginia  58:14  
Money is a lot more fun. It's all fun.


Geraldine  58:17  
We actually covered very important concepts. I'm actually looking forward to listening to this again and rereading the transcript. I put that up on the New Earth lawyer website, so that people can access the recording and can read the transcript and can access the audio as well. Maybe learn a bit more about some of the, some what we've talked about, like David Hawkins' work.


Virginia  58:39  
Yeah. And as we say, you know, take whatever resonates with you and leave the rest behind.


Geraldine  58:43  
Absolutely. Virginia. Thanks so much. Thank you. And I think Rodney behaved himself a little bit better this time around.


Virginia  58:50  
He did so well today. Thanks Rodney. Take care bye now. 


Geraldine  58:56  


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