Sand Dunes

Law of One series

Episode 1   28 February 2022

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The Rule of Law

Virginia Robin

Geraldine Johns-Putra

Audio

Law of One Series - Ep 1 The Rule of LawG Johns-Putra & V Warren
00:00 / 54:01

Video

Episode 1: The Rule of Law

   

In this ten-part series, two lawyers come together to explore what it could look like if the law as we know it shifted toward a more unified Law of One in our near future.

 

In our first episode, our two Lawyers, Virginia Warren and Geraldine Johns-Putra will introduce the idea of the Law of One and discuss its potential place in society juxtaposed the Rule of Law.

Speakers

Show notes

Transcript

Comments

 

Speakers:

Virginia, co-founder of Lawyers for Love, defies labels but is best recognised as being a lawyer, modern shaman, author and TEDx’er. Lawyers for Love offers a unique, alternate dispute resolution platform that supports the discovery of our authentic selves, by using existing conflict as a catalyst to do so.

 

Geraldine is a practicing lawyer with her own firm specialising in governance, the impact economy and business & human rights. Her New Earth lawyer podcast features conversations with lawyers who are changing the practice of law to change the world.

 

Virginia believes that by replacing our existing legal system with one that is more compassionate and validating and most of all, directed by the more highly conscious state of love, we will create a more optimal society.

 

Geraldine advises clients who are currently engaged in positive transformation of their own businesses, the wider economy, the environment and communities. She sees a world already changing for the better and the law and lawyers adapting in the right direction.

Show notes:

  • [5:46] Virginia discusses her view of the alternative legal platform based on love and Law of One and how the Rule of Law prevents that. 

  • [12:20] Geraldine's observation is that Rule of Law can be aligned to Law of One while providing equality and certainty but requires a higher consciousness. 

  • [18:07] We discuss how Rule of Law applies to inter-personal conflicts, like family law disputes, and can be punitive.

  • [27:11] How can we move to a system where people live in love rather than punish them for breaking rules.

  • [36:38] Currently, laws that are created and applied without due process are not aligned to the Rule of Law or the Law of One.

  • [41:21] To achieve a better approach to law, we ourselves have to live in oneness and model this to others. The Law of One requires us to recognise there is no us vs them, it is all One,

  • [50:18] From a place of oneness within, we recognise our power and truth, and honour everyone else's power and truth.  

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Transcript:

Virginia  0:01  
 

Well, hello, everyone, and welcome. My name is Virginia Warren. I'm a lawyer and modern shaman, and together with lawyer, Geraldine Johns-Putra,  we're discussing the Law of One, which explores what it might look like if the law is we know it shifted toward a more unified Law of One in our future. This is a 10 part series in which we'll explore and see how the Law of One could look as a solution to various societal questions like money, crime, family relationships, and all that kind of thing, the things that we find ourselves in conundrums with every day. And but today, we're going to introduce some basic concepts for you surrounding what the Law of One is, and then we'll reflect upon the continuing efficacy of our current system, which is governed by the Rule of Law. And what would that look like in an evolving society? I think we're at a point now, a bit of a turning point, where we're saying that we're doing the same old, same old, we're putting more rules and laws around things, and it's not really moving forward. Why are we continuing to do this, and Geraldine, you come from a slightly different place. To me, I say that there's an alternate platform required, from my point of view, the High Court of Australia has indicated that for the Indigenous peoples that they saw, they see the universe as one indissoluble whole. And that is not within the realms of a common lawyer to deal with. Whereas a common lawyer has proprietary rights over things like they're separate items. The Law of One, which is I'm saying this is aligned with the Law of One idea. And this is scientific, it's all science people, it's all physics, it's not woo-woo stuff. Science says we're all connected. So if we are all connected, how can we have rights over things and deal with each other and our property and things like that in the way that we've been doing them? So I say, all lawyers will have a say in it, that an alternative platform entirely is required. To deal with this, we've been dealing with it from a very interesting perspective as if we have power over movable objects, which I believe has been valuable for our experiences in society. But I'm also saying it's time for a shift. Now, what we've been doing in the past is not working. And Geraldine, you come from a slightly different perspective, you see things a little bit the way I do, but you say you can't go from here to there. And I tend to agree with that. However, you think it should be done a little bit differently.

 

Geraldine  2:37  
Yeah. I'm not actually quite sure how it's going to be done. Because I think that we all co-creating it, literally, kind of 7.8 billion of us are co-creating second by second. So yes, I mean Virginia, I actually really agree with you on a lot of things. And we've had many conversations before and you know that I agree with your idea that love is really the strongest element there is and the strongest energy that there is. And so structures that are based on love, including legal structures and legal relationships, are going to be more sustainable, than the sorts of legal structures that we've built up to now. So I guess where I might differ from you, and I'll bring in my own practical experience in the work that I do now, as a lawyer in Melbourne, in Australia, where we might differ is that I see, and possibly I look for when I'm seeing, the positives and changes that are moving us towards a Oneness, a unity of thinking. When I see this, I seize on it. And it makes me very optimistic that we are really moving towards Oneness and a law of something that's closer to the Law of One than we have been previously here on this planet, on Earth, with our legal structures. So I think it's fair to say that we're in agreement on a lot of things. But I think that where we might differ is that I don't necessarily see that we need an alternative platform. I think that we can work with what we have right now. And we're doing it right now. And we can, you know, co-create together to remove the obstacles to Oneness. I'll give you an example. I mean, the work that I do is in impact investing and companies that are trying to work in a space that's creative, enterprising, results in good livelihood, so for the owner of the business and the employees in the business, is sustainable for the planet as well as making a profit plus working with a novel or social or environmental purpose. And I see that kind of work. And to me, that's practical hands-on, kind of, boots-on-the-ground transformation of where we've been, which is just all about profit, naked profit, naked consumerism, to try to create something that you know, ticks boxes around doing the right thing. So yeah, that, I see it everyday.

 

Virginia  5:46  
Yeah, that kind of work, I think is really conducive to this view. Because I think that money follows the event. If you're doing something passionate that you love, money comes later. But I think when you're driven by the money side of things, and we're going to go and we're going to do a series, an actual episode on money, so we'll go into that a bit more later. But absolutely, I think it works perfectly what you're saying there. The reason I say an alternate platform primarily is because our current system is a fear based system. It says, just to quote, the Lord Acton idea from the snail in the bottle case is love thy neighbour, and if you can't, we'll punish you. So that is be good, or else we'll send you to your room. And I don't believe society evolved from being sent to their room, they didn't start, you know, saying thanks for that, I feel great. I really want to behave myself. Now, I don't think anyone did that. I'm saying, love thy neighbour, and if you can't, we'll show you how. Of course the issue with society is people don't know what love is. So and the Law of One is about love, it is about loving everything, everybody, no aspect is negative or bad. Whereas, and I'm using those in quotes, whereas in this current platform, you see the platform, because it's a fear-based system, it holds an energy because you see, if we're all one energy, we must think in terms of energy and frequency. So we've got to look at it completely different. From a scientific point of view from a physics point of view, rather than an intellectual point of view. And of course, this takes a complete shift from moving from the thinking mind to the feeling heart first, and then it follows the thinking mind helps you with that. But of course, that's another subject entirely. 

But the alternate platform. To give a little example is to become you know, we move from analogue to digital. Now, you can't be a little bit digital, you couldn't... they tried to dress analogue up as digital. It didn't work out. That platform worked really well but you couldn't add anything onto it, you had to shift entirely. And basically what I'm saying, the energy is completely different. And yet, look, I agree with you too, because we cannot go from, we cannot simply go from here to here in one step, we have to make steps, but it's becoming very conscious of bringing in even elements like you're working with there, these loving organisations bringing love into their own space that starts building up, then that has a ripple effect out to all the people that are involved in what those businesses are doing. And it has a direct effect on everyone's life there. People don't realise how powerful love is, and coming from that place. So absolutely. I agree with you on that point. 

 

But yeah, I think until things like our crime system, our family law system, all of those must shift entirely. And it's coming about working with the self, not the other. And this theory, this is why it's a 10-part series, everyone is because we're going to focus on individual topics like family law, crime, money, health, things like that, to see how Law of One will apply in each situation. Because that is the valuable aspect of it. I wanted to look at the Rule of Law before I started doing this, I really looked into the Rule of Law. And that's what I really wanted to talk about today was what do we have? What do we have already? 

 

And we were just being asked by Tessa, are we covering the situation of Ukraine with regards to today's topic? I will just answer that very briefly. And so not specifically, however, when anyone brings love to any situation, that energy is really, really powerful. And this is what this whole series is going to talk about any conflict at what ever scale. It's really all the same. But what you have in that space is a very, very large egregore of negative energy and it will take a lot of humans sitting in the place of love not focusing on the negative. But focusing on what is positive here. How can we all grow from this? And, wow, I'm getting full tingles right now feeling that, that is very powerful stuff. And yes, we need to start bringing... war, no one won by going into a war, it's as simple as that. You must bring love into everything that you're doing. 

 

But yes, to come back to the Rule of Law is basically power, it's power over things. And that's the Rule of Law saying... And it was a beautiful vehicle, I believe, to bring us the idea of certainty, freedom - now, we can't say war is bringing us freedom - and order. And I questioned what the Rule of Law was, does it have a definition? And I looked around and there, it's even said in some of our academic documents, there is no one definition for the Rule of Law. You must obey it. And some have said, yes, it's designed to give us peace, order and freedom, provided you operate within that space. So I looked at that, and I thought, does it bring us peace? Well, case, in point, Ukraine, has it brought us peace? Has it brought us order? I can't see the order, or certainty. Now I like to talk to people about the certainty idea, it's when someone comes to a lawyer, particularly in something like family law or crime, they're wanting to know what their future is going to look like. And this is why the alternate platform is so much more preferable because we can only know what's going on right now, we cannot look at futures, we cannot stare into the future, we don't know. The law has looked at the past to predict the future. So if you come into a lawyer, the lawyer will look into the precedents in the past and try and get your facts of the case and apply it to a future set. But there's no certainty. That has been the bane of the existence of every lawyer saying I can't guarantee you an outcome. But the client wants the outcome. So a lawyer is dissatisfied. the client's dissatisfied? Why can't you give me an outcome? Why can't you tell me what the future looks like? Whereas the other side will be doing the same. So this is why it's not a functional system any longer for I think we've become more sophisticated.

 

Geraldine  12:20  
So yeah, I would say, what is the Rule of Law? For me, actually, I consider the Rule of Law, or aspects of the Rule of Law to be one of my personal values. When I did values work, I looked at the, you know, what was important to me. And one of the things that was important to me was peaceful order. I like structure, which is one of the reasons I'm a lawyer. And the Rule of Law, to me actually means that when we have a law, it is applied equally to everybody. So that in that way, we talked about certainty and uncertainty, so people understand that's the law and it applies to everybody. It promotes equality, and fairness. So that's what I understand it to be at its most basic. However, the Rule of Law, that principle that a law applies to everybody equally, does have other things that you'd have to presuppose for it to be totally fair. The law itself, whatever law comes about must be fair. So then we actually come to think about lawmakers and law enforcers, those people, whoever they may be, need to be creating laws and applying laws and enforcing laws in a fair and reasonable way. So who do we, so the Rule of Law then cascades into other aspects of fairness, like, you know, ensuring that the people who are in charge of those things represent us, are spiritually aware, are of higher consciousness, which you know, existed in other cultures, for example, Indigenous cultures in the form of councils of elders.

 

So, Rule of Law, as a principle, I believe, as I explained it, I believe it requires a higher conscious, I wouldn't say leadership, but a group of people to both make and apply it. And I believe that it requires a higher consciousness in the general populace, because we will be the ones who will agree on the structure of who is going to make and enforce those laws. So I see the Rule of Law as actually a very, potentially very positive thing. and it would work in to me at the level of evolution that we are at now and where we are heading in, you know, the immediate future. I think the Rule of Law is is vital for human society. And I think it works in perfectly with the Law of One because you know, the Law of One says that we are all literally one, that we are all connected, that we all come from the same Source, but we are fragmented from that Source. So we are fractals of the original Source having different experiences. That to me is the Law of One. So, how do you marry the fact that we are one with the fact that we are fractals of the one?  As fractals of the one we interact with each other. As fractals of the one, we have societies. As fractals of the one, we need certainty or we thrive if there's certainty in our relations. We thrive, if I understand that, if I say x, I'm going to do x, if you say y, you're going to do y. And that's where I think that you know, the Rule of Law once we recognise that we are one, but we are fractalised elements of the one, works as almost a necessity in this, in our current level of evolution.

 

Virginia  16:30  
Yes, look, I agree. We are absolutely fractals of the one we are here, I believe. And this works for me. So everyone take away from this what you resonate with you because for me, we are individual expressions of the one to come here and have an experience. So the law has been beautiful for that experience, because it has what we have, we are indeed a fractal. So we are personally fragmented. We have personally created our own rules system as well. So my rule is I don't wear red, Geraldine's rule is she does. And so I might not like red. So I might find red offensive. But that's ridiculous. Because red has no meaning, it's just red. And so this is where I see that the Law of One is very valuable. We, when we remember who we are, when we remember that we are fractals of the whole, then we know, we are certain of who we are, we are certain that we are loved. That's what love looks like. There is nothing ever wrong. Ever. You are just having an experience. What is that experience meaning for you? Life is your reaction to it. So if you are reacting, which many people do within relationships, that's an indicator of a personal rule or fragment, you are fragmented from your source, you are disconnected from love. Because the way I see it being one whole energy, you are All That Is so therefore all is acceptable. Maybe not preferable. 

 

But let's go back because if we all have a higher consciousness, and we need to be taught how to be of a higher consciousness, because we have not, we have been disconnected from the source so that we have become those lower energies or lower consciousnesses. That's all. It's not, it's not good or bad. None of this is good or bad. It's just for the experience. When we all are able to move to a higher level of consciousness or love, then you see everything through the filter of love. So therefore what you want is two things. You are in the moment. You can only be momentary. Love doesn't exist in the future. Everything exists now. And you want for the highest good for all because if you are me, and I am you I want what's good for you, too, because then it is good for me. And that is where we're disconnected right now in this system that the Rule of Law says you go to a lawyer and you say, look, you know, I'm a little embarrassed about myself, I'm gonna just deflect from my story and blame them. They're the bad one. And of course, you've got the lawyer there supporting you saying yeah, yeah, okay, let's defend you. And you, all the law is position-based presently.

 

So particularly in family law, and that's what I'll talk to at the moment is for that an example is if you go into a family lawyer, they'll start saying, well, oh you did all these things, right? And that person did bad things, because we're going to build a case. The lawyer wants to win, you want a win, but what are you winning? Nothing. You're not winning a thing. What you're doing effectively is saying, oh, can you validate me? Can you make me look right? I need love because that's what we're all looking for in the society. As far as equality goes, you see, fundamentally we are all equal. It's the remembering of that. As soon as I sit and remember that I am you and you are me and we are all equal, the game changes because I see myself in you. And I see those that are trying to have power over me. What are they looking for? They're looking for love. They've lost love. They're trying to get the power from me or the love from me but they're not going to get it from me if I'm not giving it to them. I'm just like, well, I love you anyway. And fundamentally at a very macro level, that is, that's it. It's that simple. However, it is very difficult to action that in society the way it is, with all the fear around.

 

Geraldine  20:35  
Sure. But let's take your example. What I will say is that I don't agree necessarily that the way family law, or the way lawyers have been trained to interpret the law and help their clients necessarily aligns with the highest expression of the Rule of Law, okay, or more advanced expression of the Rule of Law. Because when you say that the way family law has been practised, I totally agree with you. I think that in broad terms that it's created a lot of trauma for families, for young people especially, you know, and so on, and so forth, and it ripples out. And we're seeing many, many massive developments, towards collaborative divorce and collaborative family law, that's helping. All that occurs within the framework of Rule of Law. That whole spectrum, from a more punitive way of practising law or enforcing the law, to a more collaborative way, all works under the Rule of Law. And so I wouldn't blame the Rule of Law. And you may not be doing this, but don't blame the Rule of Law, for the way in which you know, trauma has been inflicted on so many people through the way the law has been used or abused. I would say that is, as we're moving towards a recognition of the damage that we've been doing, and moving towards a recognition of a better way of doing things, we're still engaging within a Rule of Law structure. For example, a collaborative divorce still will require an arrangement to be drawn up, it will be an arrangement along the lines of, we have two children, and we want to be able to care for them. Now, this child does better if if he or she remains here, this child does better if x applies. So we'll come to an arrangement where we'll work it out financially, psychologically, looking for the welfare of children, we'll work it out in a way that's best for everybody.

 

Now, when that goes, pen goes to paper, to reflect that I think that's when you're talking about Rule of Law, because that I would want to know, as say, one half of a couple who is going through that process, that you know, what's reflected on that piece of paper is taken to heart by the other person and going to be abided by. And if they can't abide by it, then we'll have something else in the contract that will explain what we'll do if we have a dispute. And this goes into conscious contracts work that Kim Wright and others have been working on. And I think that all that functions within the Rule of Law, because that gives certainty in contracts. There's nothing wrong with contracts, right? If they're expressed in a, you know, values based way. And there's nothing wrong with enforcing contracts if they're done in a reasonable way. So all that to me is both aligned with Rule of Law and Law of One principles, and I see all of society, working towards this principle. So collaborative family law principles, conscious contracts, profit intersecting with purpose, restorative justice and therapeutic justice, jurisprudence, Earth law principles, all of those things like I see, you know, moving us along, you know, mediative principles that are more about collaboration as well. All of that I see is moving along. We're still working within this legal framework where we understand rights and remedies, but we apply all in a fair and more reasonable way. It's still Rule of Law.

 

Virginia  24:57  
So the question I have then is remedy, yeah, what are the remedies?

 

Geraldine  25:03  
What are the remedies? The remedies might be that if you don't comply, then you will compensate me.

 

Virginia  25:10  
Yes. Now, why aren't we looking then at why I didn't comply? This is my question. This is why this really goes very deep to our childhood rules. My view of rules in any event is rule-breakers break rules, rule-breakers will always break rules, I don't care how many rules you're going to put out there. Because what our tribe said to us as children, like boys don't cry, girls don't get angry, these are all rules we personally carry. They have far more weight than any Rule of Law, that you can tell me to do something and I am like no, I'm not doing that doesn't matter. That's why I said there's no certainty is just because my set of rules, my personal rules, will outweigh any other rules that there are, and the outcome of that is usually not pretty. And then you're going punish me for that. And then we have a war. So I don't see how that works. You see, and this is why I'm saying we need to do this completely differently. And in the coming episodes, I'll give examples of how I see that should be in contract, family law, and all those other things, because it is personal work. It is why am I believing this to be true? Why did I actually want to break that contract? Why did I agree to that contract? With all these questions, it's about me and my response to life. Because I am not what I call in the energetic flow, coming back to it's all energy, and that everything is acceptable, of course, as I said to you, and this is a beautiful conversation, because my ideal is a utopian existence, which obviously is not going to happen overnight. But it's a lovely place to sit out there and say, okay, if we start moving in that direction, which I think you're saying too Geraldine is absolutely true in some areas of law, we can do it without question.

 

Geraldine  27:05  
Well, I'm not even saying if, I'm saying we are moving.

 

Virginia  27:08  
Well we are. We must. 

 

Geraldine  27:10  
We are. 

 

Virginia  27:11  
We are moving in that direction. Yeah. So then those things like yeah, punitive remedies to me, are not Law of One. As a judgment, and who's judging, as we know, in the High Court, they can sit and have four, three judges agree three judges disagree, one undecided. So tell me when we've got the most brilliant minds in the country that cannot make a unified decision in law. This tells me it's not certain. This tells me that it is personal perspectives. I know we're not supposed to be biased, but we are, we cannot help it. It's who we are, what we are, as you said fractals, or individual expressions of the one indissoluble whole. So this is why I'm saying a judgment is separation. It doesn't flow with the Law of One.  Guidance, yes, absolute guidance is we're guiding society we all prefer you people didn't kill each other. That would be a great idea. Although whatever, play that game if you want to, I mean, I'm very liberal in these ideas.

 

However, if we're going to punish and put someone say, in the worst cases, put someone away in jail, we are saying you are not acceptable. We're not helping people through the reasons that they're making their choice to disagree in such a vigorous way with the path of society. And we're seeing this in the headlines with various other things that are going on. We've got judges, we've got people within Parliament not behaving themselves. And we think these people should be the role models of society, yet they're not. Their internal legal systems are far more powerful than any rules you're going to give them. And this is the big deal for me is this. Like, if we got to step back and look at the Law of One and said, we are all one, I'd be looking at these people saying, hey, what's going on with you? Why do you need to take power over another person? What, where have you missed out? Where have you disconnected from love? It's the alternate way of looking at things. It's all energy. It's all connected. It's about frequency and flow. And it might sound a little crazy, but if you dive deep into that, you can see. Thanks, Corrine. That's beautiful. Corinne agrees with that view. And I think it's science. It's not woo-woo anymore. This is absolute science, which tells us that if we start fractaling or sorry, fragmenting as energy, it's the second law of thermodynamics, which says that it will break apart. That means you'll break out of your own system and you'll do silly things that society doesn't like. And instead of saying to these people that have been doing these silly things around, like, how can I help you? You are me, I am you, how can I help you to find the love that you're looking for without doing it like this to society? That's the way I'm seeing it.

 

Geraldine  30:13  
Right. So I hear all of that. So coming back to the example we were talking about, I mean, I wasn't, you know, talking about punitive measures, actually, in that contract. We're already in the situation where we're in a collaborative arrangement, a collaborative divorce, which I think is further advanced than where many breakdowns of relationships are. So what we can use there are contractual principles around, you know, addressing when change occurs. So addressing change is in fact, one of the elements of the conscious contracts work. So, so when a change occurs, right, and you say, taking you back to what you were saying about why would someone break a promise? Why would someone not do what they said they were going to do, there must be something going on? So that kind of work around understanding what's going on with that person can absolutely be worked into a contract.

 

And I think in a fairer system, consistent with both Rule of Law and Law of One you would do that, you would have that element of, you know, let's sit down and talk about it. I mean, it's, it could be about divorce, it can be about any relationship, it could be about a business relationship, virtually any contract, you can have those sorts of clauses of, there's something going on with me. You can have a clause of the you know, you can call it that "there's something going on with me" clause, and we need to talk about it. I mean, it's a contract, you know, it's an agreement that you can put anything you want in it really, within the law, as you and I know. But it, why not? Why not have that sit down, we're going to, you need space, we'll give you the space first, or we'll sit down, whatever it takes? And then we'll understand why, you know, you said you would take the little one, the little child, on Saturdays and Sundays, and now you're saying you can't take him on Saturdays and Sundays? What's going on? Oh, okay, you have this thing going on in your life. Well, let's work it out before I demand that you do x-y-z. But if it does come to a point where, where you said you would take the little one for a weekend, and now you can't, well, you know, and now I'm going have to whatever, pay a sitter or go out of my way, well, is it reasonable, then you know, that you will compensate me for that? Why not? So, you know, you can have those sorts of very reasonable elements within contracts, whether it's divorce law or, as I said, other personal relationships. 

 

Now, when it comes to criminal law, that's a whole other thing, and there are whole other modalities for us to consider why someone might have created a situation where they are breaking a serious law, you know, or they've hurt somebody else. That you go into trying to find out what's going on in that person's past and that person's environment, try and heal them, try and heal the community. And that still occurs, to me, within the Rule of Law. I mean, I actually don't think that law here is a bad word. I think law here means that there's, as a society, we've agreed upon a set of principles. You can call them a law, or you can call them a guideline that we're going to abide by. And when someone deviates from that, then we're going to have to do something about it. And to do something about it doesn't necessarily mean we're going to throw them behind bars. But it means we're going to have to work as a society and find out why that's happening. And to try and ensure that it doesn't happen again. That to me is entirely consistent with the Rule of Law.

 

Virginia  34:23  
Yes. Well, I look, the way I'm seeing the Rule of Law, though, is that the Rule of Law has punitive consequences. That is why I'm saying that the Rule of Law is antiquated, I guess, doesn't align with the Law of One in the respect that it has punitive consequences for when you don't follow, when you don't behave what the parent you know, in accordance with the parent's rules, because, guidelines, rules, they're all just words and all I'm saying it back again, is that the principle love thy neighbour and if you can't, we'll punish you rather than love thy neighbour and if you can't, we'll show you how to do it. That is what I said that the Law of One aligns with. And it's not. So the Rule of Law, please do not misunderstand me. I'm not saying the Rule of Law is bad, nothing is bad. Everything is instructive. So that indeed, if we're playing with the Rule of Law, even in any situation where you find yourself in a conflict, observe it, how am I responding to the situation, because that is where the growth is for each individual. All of this can be used as a mechanism for our personal evolution. And that is absolutely the way to look at things. And if we worked in with the Rule of Law, from that point of view, ultimately, if we can all know ourselves from that place, then we have elevated society from using it as a catalyst for our evolution, rather than a shame blame game, where it tends to be used right now. And that's why I say our prisons are overflowing.

 

And I know we're talking different areas of law here completely, it's very difficult to blanket this from one point of view. But that's all we've got this, this little series going on. So we can dive deeper into say, contracts and things like that, which I'm very excited about. Because I certainly have views on that too, which is going to be fun. But like I think this is a marvellous conversation. And just to recap, yeah, I say the Law of One as a place, it's all energy. We are all connected. So coming from that perspective, it has a different I believe a different approach is required to governing our way forward.

 

Geraldine  36:38  
I agree. I mean, I think we're in total agreement on that a different approach is required. And it's, you know, whether we're going to take the, continue to build on where we are absolutely creating wins on the board with some of the existing modalities I was talking about, build on them and take things forward. Yeah, absolutely and I think the goodwill is there. We are working against structures. And I think that's worth saying this for people who are tuning in, and you want to know about heavy handed laws that have come down, if we are... those are the sorts of laws that to me, is exactly why we need to properly enforce the idea of Rule of Law. You know, if a law is not properly debated. In our current situation, right, if the law is not properly considered, within the structures that were set up by our elected representatives, if it bypasses, if it passes processes, that's not Rule of Law to me, you know, and that can create very unjust outcomes. And we've seen unjust outcomes created all over the world. You know, I live in Melbourne, Victoria. I am not afraid to say, you know, we have seen unjust outcomes in some of the rules that have come down, I don't consider that to be Rule of Law, abiding by the Rule of Law, I consider that to mean that that there's something wrong with our process. And you know, we need to actually look at why those unfair elements arose. We need to question you know, whether our lawmakers are doing their job, were rules coming down that didn't follow the necessary processes to become law, were rules being handed down by people who aren't elected? And I like, those are those to me if, you know, we want to talk about big picture, where we are really running into issues, we're really running into the biggest challenges of our time, trying to move our society ahead towards a more unified whole, towards more understanding, that's where the rubber is hitting the road. 

 

Virginia  39:27  
And it is, it is really an awakening. People are asleep to the idea that they are all connected to everything else on the planet. I believe that that is the shift, as soon as people realise that there is a change in the way you see your life and the way you see the life of others and people's motivations. You see why people are motivated to do things.

 

Geraldine  39:50  
That's it. So what we, the next phase is and this is what I think we are inching towards, the next phase is to create a structure of lawmaking that, fixes the very egregious elements that are wrong with our current lawmaking process, for example, the way in which our Parliaments operate, you know, like that they operate along party lines, they don't necessarily operate, you know, people who are in Parliament, are expected to follow a certain policy rule that's set by their party, they're not necessarily representing the people in their electorate, who, by the way, actually elected them and who they represent. Those things are where we are inching forward. You know, those things are where the structures, the legal structures are the hardest to break. Those things are where we really do need what you're talking about, which is more love, more understanding, more awareness, more Oneness. And how we get there is the challenge of our time, and I'm talking about our time, the year 2022, this is when we are actually going to figure out how we fix that.

 

Virginia  41:21  
We cannot make anyone do anything, there's one thing to be sure, you cannot control anything. And this is why I say that. With the Law of One, it is one. That cannot control you. All I control is my response to life. And I believe when people start understanding this very simple principle is when things will shift, because those that are those that are making the decisions at the present time, are doing it from a place of fear. Why?  They're in fear of their reputations, of the status. of how much money they'll have, who will love them. Fundamentally, it's all love. We are only motivated to do things because we think we'll feel better in the doing of it. And if people will model the behaviour of, I'm making a decision from love for the highest good of all. if people start doing that, then it's understood how to do it. People don't know how to do that yet. It's a very, very big shift, but I cannot make you do it. Or them or anybody else. I have to be the one. Gandhi said it, be the change, simple as that. But as soon as we just talk about it, I'm modelling this, I'm doing this, I'm talking about it, I'm not telling you to do it or not do it, you're on your own journey. But I see you from where you are, is what I'm saying to all the other people, that I don't care what you do. But and there's big, big discussions to be had about this as a very simple concept, but very deep and complex and takes a lot of basically reprogramming to understand who you are in this space and not to be caught back in the matrix. Back in the negative energy. It's a big thing. But it's still the Law of One, you're still, yeah, these are all separate energy fields we're talking about here. And that's another discussion that yes, I think that's an amazing topic and I'm really enjoying it Geraldine, I love your point of view. And I loved, this is I think, this is really important for people to really sit with Geraldine's way of seeing and people who will sit with mine, people who will sit nowhere near it, it doesn't matter. But it's now time to have a big fat conversation about where we're headed as a humanity.

 

Geraldine  43:40  
I agree. And I also think that you know, that whole oneness element is both the vision and the path. So we cannot get to a vision of oneness by applying separation or using tools of separation. So when we think about, you know, who might be doing what to us, you know, those evil people who might be enforcing or implementing rules, enforcing rules in an unfair way. If we applied the law of Oneness, we recognise that actually, we're doing it to ourselves. We've agreed to it firstly, in the sense that we have consented to be here and we have consented to what's going on around us. We are one with those who are doing things to us. And also we have played many different roles. You know, this is just one avatar that I'm wearing. I am, I mean, right, I have been the enforcer. I have been the victimiser. I have been the tyrant. I have been the most, you know, I mean, I've done the most unimaginable things. Another aspect of me has done it, right? But it's still me. So you know to be able to rise above seeing the us versus them elements of where we are right now, you need to draw back to the Law of One. So you use that as a path, right? And when you apply that concept, then you go, okay, I desire higher consciousness in the world around me. And like you said, work on yourself, you desire higher consciousness then around you. So you desire higher consciousness in yourself, and apply and apply and apply it. And it's the quickest way that you've, we've talked about this before, through personal experience, it's the quickest way to witness change around you. Because we are talking Law of One. You, when you affect yourself, you affect all. So we're past thinking about how can I do something about something? It's, we're now at the point of what can I do within me to effect that change? That we're all empowered beyond what we've grown up with to do that. I mean, I'm not saying this for you because you 100% know this, I know you do.

Virginia  46:28  
Yeah, that's it. Yeah, we know what we know between us here and we're just explaining this to anyone who's listening, because I've described love as a state of being without fear. And these are unconscious fears I'm talking about. The unconscious fears that you have about not getting love, because you are love. And it's a state of beingness, this is not about the doing of love that terrifies everybody. And yeah, we'll just sort of elaborate that on as we go. But the question I like to ask, I think if we are guided by this one thing, it's asking the question, every situation, what would love do here? That, to me, is above all law that ever existed. One question in every moment, what would love to do here? Because life is just a bunch of choices. We make so many choices every day. Am I always choosing the love path? Am I always making the decision in love. That song, that I would love everyone to try that. What would love do. There's no law then.

 

Geraldine  47:33  
And someone asked a question earlier about the Ukraine, what's going on in Ukraine. And without getting into specifics, you know, in getting to the geopolitics of it all, applying what I was saying earlier, it's when you draw right back, and you apply this concept of multi-dimensional reality, because that's what, that's the reality we actually exist in, you know, you and I are having this conversation at one level of reality and then our sub-consciousnesses are having a conversation at another level of reality, we are having a conversation with anyone who's watching now or sometime, another time, we're interacting with them at another level of reality, and so on, and so on, to go all the way back to Source which I was talking about, right? So if you look at any world event, you can look at it at that small level, what I'm going to call the small level, but that this kind of 'I' level, Geraldine level, or you can draw all the way back, and at each level, you're going to witness something. And so if you want to use Law of One as a path to growth, then it's, I find it instructive to draw all the way back, as far back as I am able to do so with my current kind of level of consciousness and go, what's going on here? Why? And once I have that perspective, you know, and to me, the perspective is that we've all agreed on this. At some level. We've agreed on this war at some level. And people will say I never agreed to go to war with Ukraine. I never agreed to do this. Well, at some level, you may not have, that 'I' , the 'you' that you think you are hasn't agreed, but at some level you have. So ask yourself, why? Why is this happening on the planet? What is going to come out of this? What is the development that's, you know, if you look at this draw right back, what is the development that's going to, this is going to lead to? And then if it worries you particularly as people may be hurt and damage may occur to individuals, then know that the part of you that is part of all can affect it, and you can ask or pray or however you want to talk about it, for a peaceful outcome. You know an outcome that occurs with the least amount of hurt or suffering. But for the highest good of all.

 

Virginia  50:13  
Go within is what I think about that first. 

 

Geraldine  50:18  
Yeah. 

 

Virginia  50:18  
Always from that peaceful place, no matter what. The work is for you, for everybody else. Because a lot of people are thinking, look at all the poor people and the poor children and poor everything else out there, there's poor everything everywhere. You cannot be responsible for it all. And this is a big deal. It's sitting within the peaceful place for you, you are most helpful to everybody on the planet, if you find the peace within. 

 

Geraldine  50:41  
Absolutely. So there's, to me. there's no utility in commenting on the specifics of what's going on.

 

Virginia  50:54  
Because you don't know the truth. No one knows the truth.

 

Geraldine  51:00  
The so-called truth, you know, because there are many layers of truth. And there's no fixed truth as well, you know, the truth is evolving. And we may agree as a planetary consciousness, we may agree a different truth, at some point in time later, you know, that may not appear to be the truth at this point in time. It's so fluid that you cannot ...

 

Virginia  51:31  
Energy flows, it's not structured. And that's why structures don't work. This is, this is it. The truth is true for everybody. Everybody's truth is true for them. If everyone can simply see why the truth is true for them, then they understand very quickly, like, oh, my truth is true to me. I'm seeing it from this point of view, but you're seeing it from that point of view. And that's true for you. That's a big deal.

 

Geraldine  51:54  
Exactly. So going back to that contractual discussion we were having, you know, yes, it might seem minor, like we're just talking about divorce law when the world is in crisis. But actually, that's a microcosm of all our relations, you know, what's its effect, people come together in love and thought that they were going be married forever. And then it goes kaboom, it's a microcosm of all of our pain and suffering and love and joy, universally. So how we deal with that, you know, like you said, fluidity, recognition of the real principles in that kind of situation, because I recognise, you know, going through all the layers of reality, recognising you agreed to this, I recognise and grow from this, I recognise you are me and I am you. And so within that dealing, how we solve that conflict, we can reflect on that and apply to everything.

 

Virginia  52:58  
That's it. That is so true. And, look, that's the fundamental principle of the Law of One. And I think we might wind it up there, Geraldine and that's Rodney in the background. Everyone say hi to Rodney as well.

 

Geraldine  53:15  
He's run out of treats. So he's expressing himself.

 

Virginia  53:21  
That is the fundamental principle of the Law of One, we are connected. I am you, you are me. And when we see it that way, if I want, if I want the best for you, that means I want the best for me. It's really that simple. And even if we're not in total agreement on our platform situation, we're going to work through this over the next 10 months everybody or nine months now with different topics, so join us it's going to be fun and Rodney will be making a starring appearance. So it's bye for me.

 

Geraldine  53:52  
Bye everyone and thank you for joining us, and thanks Virginia.

 

Virginia  53:55  
Thank you Geraldine.