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Sand Dunes

Law of One series

Episode 5   20 June 2022

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Climate change

Virginia Robin

Geraldine Johns-Putra


2 Lawyers talking Law of One Climate ChangeG Johns-Putra & V Robin
00:00 / 36:03


Episode 5: Dealing with crime


In this series, two lawyers come together to explore what it could look like if the law as we know it shifted toward a more unified Law of One in our near future.

In this fifth episode, our two Lawyers, Virginia Robin and Geraldine Johns-Putra discuss climate change and whether the 'enemy' is climate change.


Show notes





Virginia, co-founder of Lawyers for Love, defies labels but is best recognised as being a lawyer, modern shaman, author and TEDx’er. Lawyers for Love offers a unique, alternate dispute resolution platform that supports the discovery of our authentic selves, by using existing conflict as a catalyst to do so.


Geraldine is a practicing lawyer with her own firm specialising in governance, the impact economy and business & human rights. Her New Earth lawyer podcast features conversations with lawyers who are changing the practice of law to change the world.


Virginia believes that by replacing our existing legal system with one that is more compassionate and validating and most of all, directed by the more highly conscious state of love, we will create a more optimal society.


Geraldine advises clients who are currently engaged in positive transformation of their own businesses, the wider economy, the environment and communities. She sees a world already changing for the better and the law and lawyers adapting in the right direction.

Show notes:

  • [0:49] Although climate change originates from people's concern and compassion for the planet, it results in divisive and polarised debate..

  • [5:47] We can leverage expanding environmental awareness to focus away from minimising carbon towards a broader focus on regeneration. 

  • [9:50] Mass consumerism and extractive thinking to fill spiritual emptiness contributes to environmental degradation.

  • [10:57] Using legal compliance as a way to force companies to demonstrate their environmental and social credentials via ESG regulations encourages separational thinking rather than a unified effort towards healing the planet.  

  • [14:22] Additionally, compliance driven thinking leads to greenwashing., which is fear-based thinking.

  • [17:11] Unfortunately, our media's focus on climate change has led to climate hysteria and an increase in depression and anxiety  especially among young people, 

  • [18:30] Centring in love and peace and having compassion for other's choices rather than fighting is more effective as a spiritual tool to achieve any aim.​  

  • [22:39] If we regard ourselves as cells of a body, then we each have our unique role to play and express ourselves which will result in equilibrium and optimal health of our home.

  • [30:52] By being more unified and loving, we will also create space for inspired ideas to blossom that will lead to better and cleaner technologies, including clean energy, that will help protect our planet.  

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Show notes


Virginia  0:02  
Well, hello everyone, and welcome back to Two Lawyers Talking the Law of One. My name is Virginia Robin. I'm a modern shaman and former practising lawyer and together with Geraldine Johns-Putra., we're discussing the Law of One and exploring what it might look like if the law as we knew it shifted toward applying a more unifying law one. This is a 10 part series in which we'll see how the law of one could look as a solution to various societal questions. And today, in our fifth episode, we're looking at climate change, it's a pretty interesting topic, climate change, and whether in fact, things like carbon is in fact the enemy. So Geraldine, I'll get you to start this one today.


Geraldine  0:49  
Oh, thanks Virginia, I've got to say, before we launch into the topic in more detail, I'll have to say that I'm not a scientist and I'm not an expert on the science behind climate change. I am a lawyer who works with corporations and businesses around how to implement policies that are friendlier to the planet, and friendlier to communities and not focused solely on profit. So and even in that sense, I tend to work across a wide range of areas, including modern slavery and business and human rights or the intersection of business and human rights. And I have some work that I do on environmental type policies. So I just wanted to make that statement, because I don't want to go deeply into the science of climate change. I think that that's probably best left to other experts and other forums. What I will say, however, is that I've observed an immense amount of debate around climate change, what it means, whether it's real, how quickly we have to act before we're impacted in a way that's severe or in a way that's inevitable that we're going to cause our own demise on this planet as a race. I mean, there are all have these arguments about how much time we have left, how much we should be reducing our emissions of greenhouse gases, how much we should be ensuring that the temperature of the planet doesn't exceed a certain amount by a certain date, and so on, and so forth. So what I'm seeing is that almost every stage of, every aspect of climate change, creates debate. It's a very, very divisive topic. And what I would say about it is that it's a bit of a shame, from my perspective, because when I speak to people who are motivated to do something about climate change, they're coming from a place of love. And that is love for the planet, and love for the human race, and love for the animals and the plants and all of these diverse species that live on this planet. So it's kind of perverse that it's something that's motivated by love and oneness, a feeling of interconnectedness with all that I have spoken about, it actually leads to divisiveness. So what I really like to bring this discussion to is the idea that we can use climate change to promote Oneness. And if we align ourselves with the Law of One thinking, then we'd actually be able to achieve quite a lot more in terms of the environment and reducing our impact our negative impact on this planet.


Virginia  4:11  
Yeah, look, I think you're so right there, because like many things, I think, topical things on the planet at the moment, who knows what the truth is? So yes, I come from the same point of view. I don't know the science behind it. You hear one thing, and then another thing and to me I will never know the truth of what is really happening. So what I do in that situation, from the perspective of the Law of One is go back to how am I feeling. Because we're all connected. So I have an impact my energy, my personal energy has an impact on the entire collective. And that's how I see, making a solution to it,  if there is, in fact, a problem, what is the solution? And I always go back to how do I, am I reacting in life? Or am I creating something positive? And that's as much as I can do. So yes, that's fundamentally and in some ways, I think, if I'm feeling in a state of peace, like what is, I see everything in my life as a reflection of who I am? And these are the topics that I find valuable for me is that well,  in my immediate environment, what's happening? And how is that reflecting who I am at any moment. And so if I'm not, at least at peace, I need to do the work.


Geraldine  5:47  
See, I think that I'm at a place where I do believe that the impact that we're having on this planet is not conducive to the way that we would like to live on this planet, or the way we prefer to live on this planet. It's not conducive to to the Amazon rainforest or to biodiversity, I think that we, I personally see impacts of it in the work that I do. Whether it's cutting down rainforests, or losing diversity of species, or increasing the vulnerability of communities who say live in certain areas like coasts, I am more of the view that we could do more. But the question for me is, and I would like to do more. See, where I come from, the position that I come from is, I feel motivated to help to change the way we're living as a species, I feel that that's part of my role here. And I feel that I have a set of skills that I can use to help bring that about, along with obviously, many, many, many different people from different walks of life with different skills, different professions, and different, different experiences. So what I would like to see is more cooperation, more collaboration, that's actually achieving something, that's changing what I'm talking about, you know.


So I'd like to see, what I like to see coming out of the awareness of climate change is, I like to see things like we're, in Australia, we've just had our federal election now, a general election where we actually brought in a new government. The number one issue for voters in that election was climate change. And you can call it climate change. Or you could actually say it was the environment, it's our planet. That has not, as far as I'm aware, happened in this country before, right? And so it's to me, that's an opportunity. It's a massive opportunity that we can grasp to say, well, now we've got all of this love going towards this planet. And we can change the way we're doing things. And so I actually, I think that we can start switching towards a focus on carbon, as you mentioned earlier, as something that needs to be reduced to zero and carbon footprints solely, towards a more regenerative way of living and  that's more sustainable. A very popular expression is there's no planet B. That's absolutely right. We have a very extractive mindset, or we have been living with a very extractive mindset, where we just consume and throw away, consume and throw away and that's, that is not sustainable. And we now have the opportunity with all the goodwill and love towards the planet to change that. And I would like to see more of a focus away from what I think is quite narrow, the carbon debate or the campaign to reduce carbon to net zero, towards a whole shift in everything from the materials we use to the way we treat ourselves, towards regeneration and the cycle of life, which is a far more spiritual way of approaching things.


Virginia  9:50  
Well, I think that's precisely the idea of consumerism, you know, to reduce consumerism is reducing the carbon footprint I believe. And why are we consuming? That's the question that I believe needs to be asked if everyone can then sit with themselves and say, rather than being concerned or responding to what's going on out there, as I said, what am I doing? Why am I needing to consume? You know, we have fast fashion and things like that, why do I need the latest t shirt in another shade? I can keep using the one I have. And then maybe select brands that when, you know, we can't always ascertain whether a company is in fact doing what they're saying they're doing. But we can only go by how we feel about something. And I think if we personally select to consume less, we'll get by, I mean, who cares whether I have three shades of green in a T shirt? Who cares?


Geraldine  10:57  
Yeah. And you bring up a really critical point, which is like, can we actually tell what a company or business is doing to impact the environment positively or negatively? A lot of climate change, law around climate change focuses on disclosures. So companies now are increasingly pressured or required by regulation, to disclose what the impact of the businesses are on the climate, as well as the risk of climate change and the risk that their businesses are being exposed to, by the changes in climate. So there's a lot of disclosure going on. And what's so interesting about what you're saying is how can we tell. That's actually a critical question. There's a limit to how much businesses can disclose. And there's a limit to how useful that information is. So I would say that what that leads to then is this concept of greenwashing, where people are focusing on the information they put out, rather than the actions that they need to take. And lawyers especially are then focusing on testing the information and whether that information is accurate, or whether it's misleading or deceptive, and taking action, looking for an opportunity to, you know, to either make a name for themselves, or to make some money out of their own practice. Rather than thinking about how best, what action could we take to actually get to the best end result, which is one where we're not raping and pillaging that planet.


So greenwashing, your point about disclosure leads directly into this whole concept of greenwashing. And how separational thinking is that someone else is causing the problem with the planet, and they need to then tell me what they're doing or not doing. And I will make that decision as to whether I buy the goods on the services or not, which goes back to what you were saying about, you know, rather than thinking about ourselves and how we're feeling. So we then, we create this whole chain of disclosure and risk and leaving it to other people, rather than internalising and saying, well, okay, this is our problem together, and we fix it all together. So that's, so I think that there's a another issue with the way that we're approaching climate change. And in fact, with most ESG, or environmental-social-governance concepts is that we are setting up this whole "it's your problem", "it's your problem" chain, rather than "it's our problem", let's find a positive solution and take some collaborative action. And collaborative action is there, but the mindset, we would benefit from changing to, we're all in it. And rather than taking legal action against a company, what can we do to actually make the actions a company can take you know, create a safe a space as possible so everybody is able to to take the best steps that they can and divert their resources towards it rather than trying to put up a front and defend themselves against legal action?


Virginia  14:29  
Yeah, look, the idea of greenwashing is still fear based, isn't it? It's just like, I'm going to show you something that I'm not doing, that's misrepresenting myself. 


Geraldine  14:42  


Virginia  14:42  
And also then people are afraid if I don't buy the thing that says it's green, then I'm not supporting the planet. I come back to the consumerism idea as to why are you so empty that you have to keep filling yourself up with stuff. A fun teacher I know calls it stuffology. We just keep filling ourselves up with stuff. Why do we need so much stuff? And I think that is a beginning to come back to ourselves, why are we so empty? Why aren't we more peaceful, as I said, that will then reflect externally in the environment? Because if you are not consuming so much on the planet, the planet does not have to give you so much. You are not extracting, and then you have more time to regenerate. We slow everything down to a more peaceful play pace, then we have time for regeneration. And there are many beautiful organisations working in the space that are really on sort of separate platforms completely to our regular industry, that aren't having to put out a misrepresented position, they're really starting ground up if you like, and I'm involved with a couple of them. And I think it's, you know, wonderful. And I think we can all look around to see what else is going on out there, that is not... the decentralised idea, is really gaining traction. 


Geraldine  16:15  


Virginia  16:15  
But I do, I simply believe everything comes back to a very personal state of being for us all. So if you're in a loving state of being, generally you don't want for much, you're not reaching out all the time for the latest gadget, for the latest clothing, for the latest thing, you're concerned about what you're eating, how it's grown, you preferring organic, you know, all these sorts of things, the individual automatically moves into a space of when we're just loving our own self. And that self love is reflected externally to love for the planet. I know many young people are in that space, they are concerned. And it is a fear, rather than coming back to themselves saying oh, what can I do to love me? And when I make loving choices for me, I make it for everybody. The planet is connected to us. We are one. 


Geraldine  17:11  
Yeah. So there's a lot of climate hysteria, and it's being churned up amongst people, particularly young people. So it's creating a whole other pandemic of depression and anxiety amongst young people, because they actually, when they're told that life on Earth is essentially under threat by the year 2030, or 2040, or 2050, if we don't do x-y-z, then that's particularly scary. If you're a 10 year old, you think that there is just no future. So it's taking future and dreams and hopes away from our young people framing it that way. In that, as you know, once you fill yourself with fear, there's no room for love, because they're just opposite emotions. So that fear gives rise to anger and self righteousness, which is not very productive, energies, that's my feeling. So that self righteousness is very separational, it really...


Virginia  18:18  
It's a fear. That's just a fear. 


Geraldine  18:19  


Virginia  18:20  
You think you're standing up for rights but you're still pushing against. And in an energetic world that is just creating a resistance. 


Geraldine  18:29  
Yep, it is.


Virginia  18:30  
It's up to you just to be in a state of love and peace. And that's not meaning you don't do anything, you are very active in making choice. It's a personal thing. Every time you raise your own consciousness that little bit more, you are raising it for the entire planet. 


Geraldine  18:49  


Virginia  18:50  
It's your own work. That's really my view on it. 


Geraldine  18:54  


Virginia  18:55  
Whereas those that are standing up and fighting, look, they're coming from a beautiful place. But that, we're even seeing the vegans do it. With force, nobody responds to force. People push against, it's a resist, just simply a resistance and a flow.


Geraldine  19:12  
Just, that's an interesting energy that you talk about because I eat mostly plant based now. I did begin eating plant based about 15 years ago, and then I went back to eating meat and the energy around what I was doing 15 years ago around being vegan was very different. I personally have never been the kind of person to say, you should eat this or you shouldn't eat that. I've just felt happier in myself when I don't eat meat regularly or don't, you know, for months and months at a time. But I've noticed also going to restaurants and things like that, when 15 years ago there was very much, ooh, um, all right, well, you're kind of strange.


Virginia  20:01  
What are you?


Geraldine  20:01  
We don't know what we can do. Whereas now it's just another choice, which is a very healthy way to look at it, right. And I feel that sense also, amongst plant based eaters is like, well, this is my choice, and I'm not putting it down other people's throats. And it's the way, you see the numbers, right? So it was maybe like, fewer than 5% of people were eating plant based, when I was first starting to eat plant based and now it's just grown through the roof. Because the energy is so much more positive, right? It's like you said, it's not like someone's forcing you to do it or making you feel bad if you choose another way. It's saying here's a choice and think about it and see how you feel. It's the same with, absolutely the same with environmental issues.


Virginia  20:51  
It is. Because should, should is simply a resistance. If you tell anyone you should do this, even concerning the environment, it's you mind your own environment and then that does it for everybody on the planet. Yes, there's no should on this planet. You can't push a flow. It's from an energetic perspective. And that's the way I say it. Yeah, because we have people I think, I think it's Elon Musk trying to take us to Mars so we can escape this planet. And as I say, you take yourself with you wherever you go. 


Geraldine  21:26  


Virginia  21:28  
You take the whole planet and the whole pattern with you unless we all shift our energy from, and I do believe it's about the consumerism, the emptiness, we're each feeling, let's find ourselves in a fulfilled place of peace and love. And I know people don't, they're afraid of the word love. So I just choose the word peace. It means when you're feeling peaceful, you're satisfied. You don't need to be, you are fulfilled, you are filled, you are filled up, you don't need anything, but just the regular, you know, the regular, your inner flow of life. And it's, as you say, it's so much more satisfying, choosing to eat foods you prefer and you're listening to your body. It's a reconnection to yourself. 


Geraldine  22:15  


Virginia  22:15  
And we have been disconnected from ourselves. And we're looking outside of ourselves to find that fulfilment, but actually, it's just simply sitting with, why am I feeling this way. And it seems trite to say it, but it is so very powerful. 


Geraldine  22:35  
One of the best descriptions... 


Virginia  22:36  
Instead of listening to the parent out there. 


Geraldine  22:39  
One of the best descriptions that I've heard of this is that, you know, we're all interconnected, in almost, in a cellular way on this planet. So we're just like the different cells in our bodies. And every cell has its own aim and its own role. And all we have to do is be ourselves. So our cells, don't go, oh, you know, like, I'm a liver cell and I just don't want to be a liver cell, I want to be a brain cell. Now, what happens when our cells try and be something that they're not is they become cancerous. And so actually, just by not accepting, you know, who we are, and following our own gifts and our own inner direction, we are actually a kind of cancer in the whole system. And this is the mindset of this planet, in the way we've been living is actually quite cancerous. And what we end up doing is we end up killing each other and the organism that supports us.


Virginia  23:53  
Yeah, I see it from the point of view of dis-ease. Exactly. It's exactly the same principle that we are either fulfilled and at ease from our own selves. Because you know, people go and buy something, it makes them feel good. But it's temporary. There's no doubt that that thing makes you feel good in that moment. But it is temporary because we know that isn't the thing. It's the feeling that you're wanting so choose the feeling that's satisfying if you are feeling negative all the time you are at dis-ease.


Geraldine  24:26  
Yeah. So the law of correspondences is, as within so without, right, as above so below. So the person who recycles everything assiduously but has this massive fear that if they don't, then they're somehow not contributing or they're destroying the planet compared to the person who's more flexible about it maybe you know, forget to put the cardboard away that day into the recycle bin, but every time they do something, they're thinking, I'm doing this for the planet with love. Now from where I sit, the person who's in flow, in love, comfortable with themselves is having a greater impact on to the world than the person who's living in fear or living in self-righteousness and pointing at their neighbours and saying, oh my goodness, that person's not recycling 100% of what they should be. We're so used to focusing on the actions and focusing on externals, that we lose sight of the importance of the internal. I mean, I think I've said this and used it as much on this show before, that again, going back to the cellular imagery, you know, we are, every cell in my body contains the universe, we represent all. So just by changing our own actions, we have a greater impact on this Earth, and in fact, the entire universe and multi-dimensional realities. So it might seem a world away from climate change. But it's actually just a, it's a micro-shift in our thinking.


Virginia  26:18  
Yeah, it's a new perspective. Look, and the CIA said it in a report in 1983, the Gateway Report that just was really revealed a couple of years ago, it was a top secret report. And it's said that this is a holographic universe. Yes, every cell in your body is a representation of absolutely everything else. Now, whilst it has a form, yeah, your liver cell can't be telling the brain cell what to do, because the brain cells being a brain cell, and it's having that experience. And that's exactly what as what we are as individuals, we are a fractal, a component of the whole, each bringing to the planet, our own personal viewpoint. But the thing is, we are tending to try and have everybody else's experiences rather than our own. And when we're doing that we keep fracturing, and we keep everything apart and in here, and we can't build, regenerate anything if we're not working together, by minding our own cell.


Geraldine  27:21  
Yes. Totally.


Virginia  27:23  
That's it.


Geraldine  27:23  
Yeah. So I think, what I'd really prefer to see, I see this in communities, sometimes when I'm talking about the work that I do that just the mere mention of climate change incites extreme emotions, sometimes to the point of people saying, oh, well, I've actually heard this before, someone commented, oh, she's talking about climate change, I've lost all respect for her. Just because I've been speaking about climate change in a positive way. And so there's a lot of judgment attached to spiritual people who are active in reducing the impact of climate change, which is kind of a bit perverse, right? I'd prefer to see oneness approach of okay, well, you know, she's talking about climate change, or somebody else is talking about climate change, where are they coming from, what do they have to say, if you don't agree, that's totally fine. But, you know, giving that person the benefit of listening to them and embracing their views. Similarly, if someone doesn't believe in climate change, and doesn't and thinks it's a pack of lies, or it's bad science, and I'll listen to them, and I have. But I look at where are they? Are they engendering a kind of divisive spirit about it? Or are they trying to be productive and moving us forward in our evolution? And I think a productive way of of moving us forward would be to agree that a change in how we've been doing things is well overdue, and it doesn't matter whether you believe in climate change or not, but let's be kinder to each other and to the planet. And that I think is the way forward and that's where I see energy all over the place. You know, when I talk to companies that I work with, when I talk to businesses that I help or advise, I see so much positive energy, you know, replacing the fear, people feeling good about working in companies that are more, that are greener, that are taking this seriously. It just is that positive cycle. And I compare it to the so-called spiritual person who is being judgmental and saying, oh, you believe in climate change, you know, you don't know what you're talking about. And where do I feel like I want to put my energies? It's with the people who are collaborating and being positive and doing, you know, waking up and saying I want to help people and the planet.

Virginia  30:09  
Yeah, it's who do you resonate with that's it, says there's a positive resonation when you hear those people. But as you said, irrespective of anyone's views, everyone's truth is true for them. So if you don't believe something that is true, if you do believe something that is true, otherwise, you wouldn't say it, you don't say things because you don't believe they're not true. And this is where I believe this as a humanity, now, we really do need compassion for everybody and their view, and say, this is from my perspective, because compassion holds the energy of love. So it's not like, oh, you're wrong. It's like, oh, I see your point of view. Okay. That's a point of view. That's okay.


Geraldine  30:52  
And the energy I'm talking about, that I resonate with is far more creative. So it's creative. And it's open to inspiration. And so a lot of the, a lot of the issues that we have around the environment and with climate change, is that we still appear to be suffering from a way of creating energy for ourselves, that we can use on this planet, in this 3D plane, that isn't very impactful on the planet, right. So whether you're talking about coal, or oil and gas, or solar, or wind, there's, whatever way we tend to try and create, generate that energy has a lot of impact. So even solar, so coal and oil and gas, yes, we understand, you know, that's very extractive, it takes resources from the ground that we're not replenishing. And also, you know, has impacts like, like environmental pollution. But solar and wind has issues too, because there's issues around storage and the issues around how reliable they are, you know, we're just in Australia now facing winter, and our electricity markets are in crisis. Part of that is and part of the whole argument is if we all move to renewable energy sources, and one side says that we'd be far better off, we wouldn't have this crisis and another side says, but hang on a minute, we'd have less reliability. Another side says, we can't even build the batteries for the renewable energy without impacting the planet, because those batteries are created out of rare earth minerals, and so on, and so forth. So every which way we try and create energy for ourselves, we end up with the same problem, which is like creating damage to the planet. So the creative space that I was talking about that, where I feel like, I started this by saying I'm not a scientist, but that's where I feel the genius scientists amongst us, if they dwell there, they will get the inspiration because I truly believe that there are other beings who have been through this, you know, who have ways and have overcome this, this idea that we have that we have to create energy, and in that we end up using up energy, that we've only got so much, there's a kind of scarcity mindset. And I believe that there are ways towards abundance if we change our mindset and dwell in that creative space where we'll find those.

Virginia  33:54  
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right there. And that is shifting consciousness. So we become more authentic, more in love, in the state of love. That's where the creative juices lie. And then anything can be created. Look, you know, we're had horse and cart, who would have thought we'd have a mobile phone, you know.


Geraldine  34:14  


Virginia  34:15  
It's all of those technologies have come from amazing, and I'm sure the technologies are there, but we don't know about them. And I've heard a lot of stuff that I don't know any of that to be the truth. What I do know is that we are very, very highly creative beings. And we can have access to information if we, if we come back to a state of moving out of the state of fear, because fear does control the planet right now. And it is not buying into the fear. When we're not buying into the fear, we are helping everybody.


Geraldine  34:49  
Yep, exactly. And if we are lending our personal energies towards a clean future one where we have abundant energy and abundant resources, then we are enabling lending energies to people bringing in what we need for the future to happen, even if we're not personally bringing it in ourselves.


Virginia  35:14  
Exactly. We're all contributing. So yeah, that is absolutely a fabulous talk today. Climate change is a difficult topic. But I think if we're just looking at it from a completely different place, from the energetic, no pun intended, but that we are all energy, and we are all one and we are all connected, minding our own energy first, not being in a state of fear, I think we can really make a difference that way. And we don't have to rely on anybody else to tell us what is true or not.


Geraldine  35:47  
Absolutely. I couldn't have said it better, Virginia.


Virginia  35:50  
Yeah. So thank you all so much for tuning in today. Thanks, Geraldine. Then it's been fun and we'll see you again next time. Bye for now. 


Geraldine  35:59  

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